Uncategorized November 17th, 2009

Don’t tell me shit about his skill level, Tim Dog made one of the Top 5 rap albums of all time.


Think about it; rappers that are so bad, they‘re actually pretty damn good overall. As the poster child for unpopular opinion, I always felt that the downfall in the quality of rap music in recent years isn’t as much due to banal lyrics as it is to the fact that so many artists don’t have an iota of personality. To be honest, I’d rather hear a hilarious or unique artist with a questionable amount of skill than another lyrical lyricist spit 413 bars about "swag", sellin coke, or a food name for some clothing that I’m too old to understand -i.e ‘yo fam I got them Rocky Road and sweet potato Nike dunks on son!’- over whatever Jay-Z instrumental is popular at the time. Or somebody using Kraft Macaroni & Cheese as a metaphor for the United States’ foreign policy in some enigmatic attempt to be clever or lyrical. And if/when the said lyrical lyricist decides to drop an album the week after his 717th mixtape hits the streets, the subject matter never extends outside of the same Smack DVD hood/lyrical boasts he had on mixtapes 1-716. The freestyles over the Just Blaze instrumentals that anybody can sound good on got everyone excited, but the beats on the album will inherently suck, which will then be defended with an “I’m all about the lyrics” retort. After a few promo shows at the Remote Lounge NYC and an article in XXL, the said rapper will then fade into “bolivion” (sic, Mike Tyson tribute). How many hip-hop quotable rappers have fallen by the wayside because they chose to use the same confrontational tone they battled people in to rap about some Illuminati symbol on a dollar bill or their newly adopted vegan lifestyle? Only Willie D can get away with that shit.

I don’t give a fuck what anybody says, the missing piece in today’s rap world is really entertaining “bad rappers”; guys with laughable lyrics and styles that you knew they were dead ass serious about when they hit the studio. These artists were continually accused of ruining good beats, but in reality there’s nobody else that could’ve done a better job on them. Don’t get it twisted, though, bad rappers are in no short supply in 2009. But most of them just aren’t funny or entertaining. It’s not just about being a good MC, but making an album that transcends drink coaster usage and avoids getting dragged into the recycle bin for a change.  People in New York always clowned Too $hort for being non-lyrical, but when one of these lyrical wizards has 18 albums in their catalog or makes a song as enjoyable as "Paula & Janet" or "Blowjob Betty" , somebody send me an e-mail. After talking to a few other avid rap fans I respect, I broke down my four personal favorite “bad” rappers of all time.



This will inherently be the one I catch the most heat over, but I’m not surprised. Hip-hop has absolutely no sense of humor, and when people couldn’t see the genius of Malachi The Nutcracker, I knew we were in trouble. I used to hear textbook dreck like this from hip-hop purists when the Group Home album came out 14 years ago, and still do today:

“DJ Premier wasted the greatest beats he ever made on the Group Home album. Lil Dap is cool, but Malachi is atrocious, Premier should’ve given those beats to Biggie or somebody.”

Or something to that effect. No. Malachi was an entertainer. His young teenage voice, his “see Spot run” simplicity, his threats of random and senseless violence against old people and his nonsensical sociopath rhetoric coagulated to make the perfect spouse for Primo’s gutter jazz thump. Whether it was intentional or not (I seriously doubt it was), Malachi injected humor into a Gangstarr Foundation that albeit great, never produced any funny records. Regardless of how many Malachi detractors pop up when discussing this album -usually in regards to its production brilliance and it being the apex of Primo’s career, but it going in vain because of the rhymes- he was a known tough cookie, so I seriously doubt anybody ever said anything to his face. Lines like these don’t grow on trees…

“I’m outta sight on the mic do what you like/ I beat your moms in the head with a metal pipe” (Was it in the Billiard Room? Did he use Colonel Mustard? Sounds like a Clue confession to me. Mothers are overrated anyway.)

“When I take flight (like who kid?) like Mike!!!!”
(Best Jordan reference ever)

“Ya know how I rock, I rock, non stop/ jump on stage, you jump…on my jock!” (It’s just that simple…literally)

However, the prime example of Malachi’s good badness would surely be his verses on “Up Against The Wall”. I don’t even think you can freestyle rhyme gymnastics on this level (he comes in at 1:05)

“You stupid muthafuckaaaa my rhyme is fat!!!!!!!!”

When I said (and still say) that Group Home’s Livin Proof album is better than both Jeru albums, I’m met with accusations of not knowing music. Fuck that. Malachi didn’t do too much after this album, but wherever he is, he’s got a fan in me. His actual rap skill left a lot to be desired, but he was ahead of his time with the senseless violence and his through the roof passion in the face of his overt simplicity. I know there’s a lot of MCs who on paper would fit in the same category as Malachi, but they’re just not dope. Maybe it was just how Malachi did it, and style points are very hip-hop. I don’t give a fuck what anybody says, I want a Malachi solo album.



Disco Rick was Miami’s misogynist answer to Run from Run-DMC. He yelled with mass amounts of echo, but that’s where the comparisons stop. Disco Rick made his mark rapping about getting head from everybody from Nancy Reagan to girls he knew named Margaret, Sharon, Karen, Jackie, Tyra, Lana, Dede, Sherry, Mona, Lisa, Laverne, Shana, Keisha, Marie, Laura, Janice, Barbara, Maria and Tina.

Rick had a softer side though; fellatio wasn’t always his forte. He also rapped getting stopped by the fuzz in the deep south, trampy-looking broads in the flea market that needed to dress with more class, and why mothers who abandoned their kids in trash cans deserved a thrashing. The latter concept (on a song appropriately titled “Babies In The Trash Cans”) found Rick actually on the way to providing a serious and viable concept song on an album full of misogyny, but about 55 seconds in, the line “we got to educate the hoes” just foiled the plan. Rick’s skill level being applied to a concept like that is the moment of good badness that actually makes him more enjoyable to listen to than anybody I’ve heard in recent memory…



Tim Dog was widely recognized as being in the doldrums when it comes to rap skill in the early 90s. But that fact makes him even more incredible to me, because his first album (Penicillin On Wax ) is the greatest rap album of all time (I can hear myself getting roasted in cyberspace for this one). It’s insane to think that a guy who rhymes “(Why you dissin Eazy) cause the boy ain’t shit/ chew him with tobacco and spit him in shit” on his album is a damn genius. But when it comes to pure entertainment, it didn’t get any better than Tim Dog in 1991. I can actually go out on a limb and say that if he actually had superior rap skill, the album wouldn’t have been nearly as enjoyable. With the album artwork depicting Tim Dog in very early 90s NYC ’hide your Starter jacket’ mode and the inner sleeve showing a posse photo with some very angry and big bat wielding gentlemen with ski masks on, the image is not one of lyrical dexterity, but of brute force.

Tim is actually at his best (and funniest) when he’s really attempting to be on a Big Daddy Kane level of lyricism.

“So whether ya think that I’m just a myth/to riff/the gift/the if/the fifth/the shift/the spliff is in control I hold a bowl/and make an ache and take a fake/ WHEEEEEWWW, and I’m still too great…Fuck Compton!”

Huh? Wow. It gets even better when Tim uses his imagination to go hardcore.

“Imma step to a wack MC/and if he try to get beef with me/ I’mma wax his ass, I’mma tax his ass, I’mma fax his ass and cold lax his ass”

You get the message that Tim is pissed off and the said ass is in trouble, but I always wondered how you can fax somebody’s ass. How he’d lax his ass, I don’t wanna know either, as I’m assuming lax means laxative, or diarrhea. This album is probably the funniest hip-hop album ever made, but I think Tim Dog did it with a straight face, which makes it even funnier. Then there was the prime example of Tim’s good badness, “Dog’s Gonna Getcha”. It’s essentially a three minute sleigh ride into threats, screams, grunts and non-lyricism, but it sounds better than most of The Source’s picks for hip hop quotable in the last 15 years. Here’s the whole song, a simple quote can’t do it justice…

The song is so lyrically bad (meaning bad) that I actually have it in my personal top 20 greatest rap songs of all time. I’m as serious as cancer, that song is God damn unbelievable, just not lyrically skilled…if you know where I’m coming from. Example: KRS-One’s “MC’s Act Like They Don’t Know” was OK, it was lyrically skilled, but it was nowhere near as good as “Dogs Gonna Getcha” when it comes to listening pleasure, not even close. Tim does actually have some decent rhymes on the album, but the majority is that rare display of unskilled hardness and humor that you just don’t witness anymore.



When it comes to bouncing ball phonetics and Speak n Spell southern drawl, nobody is coming close to Pat. Every word is seemingly broken into syllables and sounds, and the actual rhymes are exceedingly countrified. But what really puts Pat over the top is the fact that he not only admits, but brags about feasting on the hog. Pork is high in saturated fat and cholesterol, but putting Pat up on the health benefits of Quinoa is useless…

“Buyin you/ taco bell/ but a pimp/ eatin steak/ corn bread, collard greens, chitaleeeeeens (chitterlings) on my plate.”

Or when he explains to a girl why his gas tank is empty, he has a worthy excuse.

“That’s just the meter broke/ u dontknawcha talkin bout/ anyway them new Jordan’s finna come out.”

Its safe to say that Pat isn’t the Pharoahe Monch of Memphis, but the absence of lyrical gymnastics in his style is what makes him as appealing as he is.

The pinnacle of P. Pat’s good badness would be the “Nature Of The Threat” level of depth he displays on “Gorilla Pimp” (You Tube is being soft, video clip won’t embed.)

"Gorilla Pimp" by the incomparable Project Pat (link)

"(I’mma call yo mama up), bitch that’s a no no!"

Tim Dog, Malachi The Nutcracker, Project Pat and Disco Rick…You can say what you want about their skill level (or lack thereof), but one thing is for sure. They’ll be remembered much longer than your latest rap wunderkind who made one crappy album.


  1. norway Says:

    wording the tim dog, that album is top 5 any day. showing some love from norway, reading pleasure.

  2. no limit soldier Says:

    here are my favourite “non-lyrical” rappers:
    paul wall
    bushwick bill
    tone loc
    david banner
    big pokey
    pimp c
    mannie fresh
    too much trouble
    2 live crew


  3. Boothe Says:

    Slum Village is bearable at times.

  4. Contakt Says:

    Another great article and I 100% agree.

    The sad thing is, I feel like the days of the ultra talented lyricist are long gone.

    These days it’s bad rappers with no personality making boring albums. What the F_ck happened?

    Really enjoyed this one.

  5. EL3G Says:

    WTF @ Slum Village being mentioned as ‘bearable at times’… just wow.

    I agree Malachi the Nutcracker was an awesomely bad/good MC
    you can’t really say you loved golden era hip hop and not appreciate Group Home.

    I can’t fool w/ those other emcees tho. I lmao @ Tim Dog, but the Rick & Project Pat are unbearable. Can’t subject my ears to that garbage.

  6. Jesper Says:


  7. Detroit Murder Dog Says:

    “Livin’ Proof” is an awful lyrics tour de force. Combining Primo’s beats with Group Home’s raps is like serving a shit sandwich on fine china, but I can’t really say he wasted those beats here. Without Primo, these songs would be forgettable and nobody would ever make it past track 1. Instead, the beats keep you just interested enough to listen to how lyrically terrible these guys are.

    The “take flight like Mike” rhyme is my personal favorite. The echo effect used on “like Mike” puts a sonic spotlight on what is really a kindergarten-level rhyme and drives home the point that this man has no idea how untalented he is. It’s like Primo did that to shame Malachi to not rap again.

  8. Kid Captain Coolout Says:

    You be sayin the shit that a lot of people have been saying to themselves, and THEN some! I too have always been drawn to the cats who come so real with their words, that I couldn’t even front on their delivery. Tim Dog was that dude in a lot of ways, I could almost put him with some early Freddie Foxxx shit but, he wasn’t as funny… and he aint have a joint like “I Get Wrecked”.

    Now this Malachi shit is the got damn truth! Even HE wouldn’t get mad at how you summarized it all. Group Home deifinitely had the illest collection of beats from Primo… and you’re right about “who” could’ve made us feel them shits like they did. Dude’s simplicity was a part of the equation and besides, no one ever dissed Malachi for his rhymes on “Supastar”. I don’t think Primo gave them that heat on accident, he knew exactly what he was doing. …”he was ahead of his time with the senseless violence and his through the roof passion in the face of his overt simplicity”, I couldn’t have said it any better!!

    Project Pat and them 3-6 niggas is gonna be here when all these other Southern rap gimmicks fade. Pat’s flow is so f@cked up that he makes the beat sound different. You could be bouncin to it one way but when dude gets on it, your whole rhythm changes. I don’t even think he writes to his beats… I bet he gets to the studio and makes them fit wherever. Either way, he deserves to be up on the list!

    If it weren’t for dude hittin and missin at times, I’d say MC Eiht might fit. He just wasn’t consistently bad, nor entertaining.

  9. K-Loop Says:

    Great article, thanks

  10. DQ Says:

    Wow, classic post.

    I had tears in my eyes laughing while listening to the Malachi and Tim Dogg vids in this context. And you’re not wrong, they are undeniably great.

    I don’t think Project Pat is a bad rapper at all! He’s just unsurprisingly unconcerned with traditional classicist notions of “lyrical”. His turns of phrase and twisting and stretching of words to his accents constitute skills in my opinion. And yeah, his idea of acceptable subject matter for bars is likewise expansive, and you know thank goodness for that.

    “(Imma call yo mama up), bitch that’s a no no!” is such a mind-blowing line. From the context and delivery it’s like no one involved even for a moment conceived a possibility that anyone would find it incongruous. Look at the thought and work involved, getting the girl in to say the line and all. He’s just like “Man, look at the kind of shit a young pimp in his hometown has to deal with!”

    You gotta love how he spits lines like this and “Buying you Taco Bell but a pimp eating steak / Corn bread collard greens chitaleeeeeens on my plate” as if dead-ass serious. It’s this imagination always willing to go a little further or weirder in a lyric which is a lot of the difference between entertaining and merely unpleasant.

  11. Boothe Says:

    I’m also a big fan of CRU.

    Far from wack, but I never considered them to be lyrical or stylistic geniuses.

  12. rek Says:

    Reason why that Three 6 Mafia feat Juvenile song on Alchemist’s Chemical Warfare was my favorite shit on there.

  13. juan huevos Says:

    when speaking of Nutcracker rhymes, how could one forget:

    “deadly like a rattlesnake. but i don’t rattle.”


    project pat is one of my favorite rappers and a big influence. the way he accents his syllables is amazing. good choice with “gorilla pimp” - he says some hilarious ish on that one.

    really doe, lyrical content with zero personality is dead.

  14. BIG D O Says:

    Tim Dog and malachi was my dudes yo….their contributions to Hip-Hop>>>>anything these new children be droppin’…

    I really agree though, back in the day if a rapper had a wealth of personality he could get by with not being as lyrical as the next man…Humor, lewdness and overall vulgarity were necessary weapons in the arsenal of un-skilled rappers, and it had to be….the only way to captivate people without having skill is to display how shocking or idiotic you can be…i.e. Sarah Palin or Carrie Prejean…not that I wanna totally throw my favorite bad/good rappers totally under the bus..

    some of my fav. un-skilled but highly entertaining rappers eva:

    Daz Dillinger
    MC Eiht
    Bushwick Bill

  15. jzone Says:

    Haha word. Good lists. Some people have been askin why I only chose 4 rappers. I chose my 4 favorites to allow room for discussion and for people to bring more names into the fold. But since a few people had asked me to expand, here are some others that are up there for me

    NORE - I don’t know enough of his catalog to do him justice with a write up, but he definitely fits the mold.

    BABY & MANNY FRESH (BIG TYMER$)- Baby owns about 30 Mercades Benzes, but yet he still refers to them as “Moorsadises”. He also claims to have a platinum football field. The rhyme “pop that cris/ pop that mo/ slap that bitch/ punch that ho” on “Get Your Roll On” didn’t get Hip-Hop quotable in the source and I was very upset.

    RON C- Old school Too $hort soundalike from Texas, he had a lot of incredible lines.

    MASTER P- “For a dead bitch, huh/ you give some good head/ you must be on yo period damn my dick is bloody red”. That makes him Top 20, but there’s other lines he had on The Ghettos Tryin To Kill Me and Mama’s Bad Boy that were just as unbelievable and less skilled.

    2 BIGG MC and HAMMER


    I actually thought Bushwick, Willie D, E-40, DMX and Daz had skills, they just have their own style, but thats just my opinion. I’d also say 50 Cent because he’s more entertaining than lyrical, but he had some dope rhymes early on when he was doin mixtapes. “Hey bitch I see you on the stair master, but you got it on level 2 bitch, go a little faster.” 50 is dope to me!

  16. dhehmann Says:

    Ghetto Dope is one of the best albums of all time, and people still hate on me for saying that.

  17. jzone Says:

    DHehmann…you mean 5th ward boyz ghetto dope? If so, I agree, that album is insane. On “Punks and Guns”, “Studio Gangster” and Bitch Pleeze” alone!

  18. David Says:

    This post is great.

    the big tymers “i got that work” is a perfect comedy rap album. You know “Snake” or “no no”? “When ya P.O. try to make you pee in a cup / you be like no-n-no-n-n-n-no he didnt / when a n***a try to stick a big dick in yo but / you be like no-n-no-n-n-n-no he didnt”

  19. David Says:


  20. Romeo-Rolex Says:

    Too Much Trouble on rap a lot…Crazy ignorance with above average beats.
    Def. N.O.R.E. his old interviews in “Egotrip ” and “Life sucks die” were entertaining as fuck.

  21. Dan K Says:

    I always loved the verse my Yung Buk on Twista’s Adrenaline Rush “from killin the verses fool/ I be one of the worstest dudes (you the who? )/ I’m the worstest lurkin bout 9 millimeters above your surface”

  22. jzone Says:

    @ Romeo..NORE and his “full steezies” from Ego trip, hahaha.

  23. jzone Says:

    And as for Too Much Trouble, those dudes were too dope to be bad, at least on the second album. But the first album with he white midget, Bar None, he fits in that category. That lil dude was awful, but he made the album more funny. TMT were thugged out on that album, but Bar None gave em a balance. When he left the group and TMT went the pimp route on Players Choice, thats when they got funny as a whole group. The honorary #5 spot would go to NORE or Big Tymer$. Here’s the whole 3rd verse of “get Your Roll On”. That was the first song I played in my mazda when I drove it off the lot in ‘01, haha

    Verse 3 (Manny and Baby together)
    I…like…loud pipes
    Big..rims….ho’s ice
    V-twelves…or better
    No itch….strictly leather
    Don’t worry about yo bitch
    She comin wit’ me
    Leavin stickers on the Bentley
    To show the price
    Arm out the windows
    Just to floss my ice
    Fresh….wait hold up
    Thats that bitch….we fucked
    Nigga…..what yo bank bout?
    Dog i’ve been….lost count
    Pop that Kriss…..pop that mo
    Slap that bitch…..punch that ho
    What the fuck….hold on
    Everybody get yo motherfuckin roll on

  24. Travis Says:

    I most def have to agree with Disco Rick and Tim Dog. I remember when I got the Tim Dog tape, I thought he was the worse rapper ever but I couldn’t stop flipping it over every time it popped. After awhile, it was so bad it was good. And shit, Disco Rick got my attention with the Gucci Crew and I bought everything he ever did after that (that I could find, his shit was hard to find out in the boonies of the Northwest).

    A few I’d have to include off the top of my head, Sir Mix a Lot (for Swass and Seminar), Hi-C (his first album is still a classic in my book) and of course Mark Sexxx and Shah of No Face

  25. David Says:


  26. T.Q.D Says:

    Kid Captain is right. Looking back, Tim Dog does remind me a lot of not as good Freddie Foxx, but I digress.

    Anyways, “Penecilin On Wax” is not lyrical, but it wasn’t trying to be. “Fuck Compton” and “Step To Me” are 10 all time battle tracks in Hip Hop in my view. He may not have had a ton of raw skill, but good battle rap is more about entertaining punch lines, which he had. Besides, it’s great to be reminded of a time when people actually could shit talk in detail. Nowadays, it seems like most battle rap songs just end up with dudes calling each other gay for 3 minutes…zzzz

  27. BIG D O Says:

    oh let us not forget some other horribly bad/good legends like Ice-T, all the dudes in the Flatlinerz, Kokane at times and early Jim Jones

  28. MF Says:

    Did the first commenter really just say that E-40 isn’t a skilled/lyrical rapper?

    Did the guy above me really just offer damning with faint praise for the muthafuckin’ god Ice-T?

    Get the fuck out of here.

    Melachi was always dope. If there was a problem with Group Home it was that Dap’s voice was eerily similar Kermit’s nephew Robyn.

    I dunno, i don’t feel like any of these guys are “guilty pleasures”. You either make good music and have personality or you don’t, which is why i’ll always prefer B.G Knocc Out and Dresta’s album to a tin-eared affair like Soul On Ice

  29. EL3G Says:

    I just thought about it. The #1 Great / Bad Rapper of All Time is Old Dirty Bastard! His in your face brand of humor and absurdity gives him the crown. Dirty’s outrageously profane, free-associative rhymes delivered in a distinctive half-rapped, half-sung style was so terrible that it intrigued you to listen a little harder to see just wtf he was saying. He had some straight up classics too, everybody and they mama likes it raw but Ol Dirty said it w/ feeling.

    He’s the one man army Ason Unique, and he’s my favorite bad rapper of all time. Rest in Power Russell Tyrone Jones

  30. wood panels Says:

    diamond-d always had me laughing. whether he was walking around town with his dalmation, or giving relief like a maxi, he always came with the dope corn!

  31. jzone Says:

    Yeah, from somebody whose worked with E-40 and has been a fan of him for 10 + years, that man is NICE. He’s just got an unorthodox style, but his lyrics are unbelievable and there’s nothing bad about them, but its all opinion. I’ve always been a bigger fan of “personality” rap than “lyrical” rap. It’s like being a bigger Allen Iverson Fan than a Tim Duncan fan. And a dude like Ice Cube would be Jordan, a player that has both flash and fundamentals.

    And I agree with MF on that count…BG Knocc Out & Gangsta Dresta is a fun listen that most hiphop purists dont respect when I mention it (which is why I say “guilty pleasures”, not so much guilty for me, but guilty in the eyes of traditional rap listeners). But Soul On Ice to me was a hard listen and was highly regarded for the wrong reasons. Ras is an incredible MC as far as lyrics go, but sometimes your presentation (beats, song structure and delivery) is what makes or breaks it. It’s like damn, vegetables are good for you, but you gotta add spices or something to make em edible…

    And while I agree on ODB being one of the best hip-hop personalities of all time (and Nigga Pleeze is definitely an album that fits the mold), he can really MC. Listen to some of the early stuff carefully, dude could rhyme. He just chose to do the wild stuff more often.

  32. no limit soldier Says:

    @mf & j-zone:

    no, no, wait!
    I just meant that some (of my favourite) rappers aren’t considered next to Rakim or G Rap for their lyrical skills because they don’t use an “orthodox”/”hip-hop purist” style of rhyming, but they’re fucking GOOD.
    They’re LEGENDS to me and I listen to them on a daily basis.
    If you listen to “Story” or “Ever So Clear” you can trash most of the “lyrical” shit around.

    Earl is one of the best of all time (for longevity, originality, skills and charisma) but he’s never mentioned. Too Short neither.
    Didn’t mean to diss E-FONZERELLI and the others at all.

    In my opinion we need more Project Pats and 50s than “real MC’s”: you can really learn something from them and their music is way more enjoyable.

    PS “Put the dick “In the middle” like Monie” is the best old school rap/porn quote of all time.

  33. jzone Says:

    @ No Limit SOldier…Word! And word to Tone Loc too, he and Young MC were better than people gave em credit for!

  34. chuck money Says:

    Wally World from show and ag next level.
    Ced Gee ultra mags (four horseman especially).
    Mista Lawnge on the second Black Sheep album.
    5 ft. from black moon.
    tomahawk funk from funkdoobiest.
    Those are my picks for ffwrd pushing verses that strapped a cinder block to good albums.
    Guru always sounded like krs one fell off the short bus. Who ever bought any guru shit without premo? Jazzmatazz was for buppies and grad student wine and turtleneck parties.
    Willie D is hands down the best ‘bad’ rapper. Controversy. Genius album.
    Bald Headed ho’s.
    Fuck rodney king….in his ass!
    Willie needs to re-release some of that shit and get a lawyer. Promise him an i phone.

  35. J.scott?! Says:

    Project Pat For Mayor!!

  36. subtitle Says:

    man, you guys forgot a few….

    1. Ganksta Nip- “I wanna and I’m gonna trade heads with a dead moose” along with “A dead pig’s head makes a damned good christmas tree” has to be two of the best rap lines ever written. I don’t even know how he got to the point where put a needle thru his dick for his grandma to ride upon.

    2. Kool Keith- While I am very sure most people reading this have 14 Kool Keith records in their immediate line of sight and will hate me for 4 years, fuck it since Mr. Zone kept it 100. Everyone knows he is a genius of some sort, kind of like the Joker played by Heath Ledger vs. Jack Napier or whatever his name was. However, no one really dissects his rhymes to the point of banality like Biggie or Tupac. For example: “Up all night like mary jane, finger popping girls/-luscious drawls with my penis moving in your jaws” is probably the best worst rhyme written on earth

  37. jzone Says:

    Gangsta Nip was an incredible MC!!! I cant bring myself to say he’s bad because he was too crazy to be bad, he was really in a league of his own. Co-sign on Ced G on the Four Horsemen LP. “My stiggy stiggy style so cocky I knock you out like I’m Rocky”…but it wasn’t bad good, it was bad bad! just like you said…it dragged down an otherwise great album, at least production wise.

  38. BIG D O Says:

    ODB?? Hell nah…no way, i can’t co-sign that at all….yeah he got loose wit it every now and again, but he was lyrical to a much higher artistic degree than mostly everyone else we done metioned….he had that wildman style that was apart of his persona, but ODB would break you off a very worthy 16 pretty regularly too…

  39. hook Says:

    AMG? Hi-C? K and Dee from 2nd II None? Really pretty much everyone from Quik’s camp except he and Suga Free falls into this category. They really don’t deserve such great production, but somehow their presence makes it sound even better. They sound like a bunch of highschool friends just fucking around, cause that’s what they are. and it sounds way more organic than a lot of “super lyrical” shit. In my opinion Quik still hasn’t topped Rhythmalism ’cause that’s the last time the whole crew was together.

  40. Romeo-Rolex Says:

    Ced Gee is great!
    On the same league as Tim Dog, the Legion were realy hardcore.The album is full of realy dope beats but the weren’t lyrical at all.The only thing that made the balance was they were bringing all the old school/zulu vibe.
    I co-sign with Zone for the first TMT lp
    Honorable mention:Onyx (who never went stupid to “Slam” or “Throw ya gunz” drunk in the club????)

  41. MF Says:

    Fuck that, the 1st 2 Onyx albums were great.

    Sticky murdered the 2nd album.

  42. jzone Says:

    Onyx’ All We Got Iz Us is a lyrical masterpiece as far as Sticky goes. Sticky is one of the most unfairly slept on MC’s of all time in my opinion. He got real deep on that second album. Onyx had the yelling thing, but the only one that would really fall into the good/bad category would be Big DS (RIP).

    @ Hook…I remember when 2nd II None appeared on Yo MTV Raps and wouldn’t freestyle. They was like “we dont do that shit out here”, haha. Everybody got pissed and their credibility went kaput, but people need to chill. Certain MC’s can do certain things well, and they made great songs. Nobody is gonna ask Supernatural to make a concept album, which is my point. Some people are just “spitters”, some are conceptual cats, some can do both. Same with producers…Just Blaze, Primo, Marco Polo, etc. make “bangers”, shit u can rock in beat battles and freestyle over, hard head nod shit. Then you have me or Prince Paul or Danger Mouse who do more detailed/conceptual shit that wouldn’t really be suitable for a battle. Its all about preference, and I always preferred the characters over the dudes straight rhymin. Quik’s camp were more characters, but they could all rhyme decent, just not exceedingly good, so I wouldn’t call em good/bad. They were kinda in the middle. Good points all around though…

  43. jzone Says:

    Oh, but Suga Free is the one dude in Quik’s camp that can rap exceedingly good and is a character. That dude is in my personal Top 5 of ALL TIME, so go roast me for that! Mausberg (RIP) was real dope too.

  44. hook Says:

    yeah suga free is a beast. so many hilarious lines.

    “bitch you’d have better luck tryin to find tupac than me buyin you something off the ice cream truck”

    “i’d rather give you my bitch, my whole bitch, and nothin but my biiiitch!”

  45. ralphykid Says:

    Zone I gotta ask you, What’s your opinion of Tim Dog’s later shit like the “Ultra” album with Kool Keith?

    To me he was so unlyrical and “bad”, but his presence and voice made it dope. He said some real funny shit on that record, super-unlyrical, but very fuckin hillarious. I love that album.

    “i wanna be big time and make a whole lot of currency, a rich black man is a lot of fun to see, got mansions with horse stages, pay my workers minimum wages, i’m known for takin a hundred grand, and bustin em down in vegas, i’m the greatest, high rollin player in the industry,my personal bank account is united states treasury”

    whoaaaaaaa- big time hahahaha

  46. ralphykid Says:

    by the way the “big time” video with ice-t, hahahaha so fuckin good.

  47. jzone Says:

    Yeah the Big Time shit was wild. Wasnt that the EP where Kool Keith was in a zoo and he was attracted to the animals, like he was tryin to fuck em or somethin? and Tim Dog is like “what the fuck is wrong with you?”

  48. ralphykid Says:

    yeah,he wanted a giraffe with long leather boots or some shit hahahahah

    that album had kool keith’s funniest shit by far

  49. wood panels Says:

    anything kool keith says is usualy hilarious to me. “lyrical crunch time, it’s munch time, hey kid join me for lunch time” <– one of my favs.
    PB.Wolf told me a hilarious story years ago from when he stayed at keith’s apartment when they recorded the “wanna be a star” 12″. he said he crashed on the couch and keith came out and tucked him in and said “good night peanut butter” and left the room hahaha. he was shook! who wouldn’t be. priceless story…

  50. chuck money Says:

    nice story bout kieth and wolf on the ‘wanna be a star’wood. Great 12” by Kieth.
    Kieth and Doom seem to have used their collective genius to oversaturate the market with half assedness causing their fanbase to bristle.
    But damn, Dr. Octagon and Madvillainy both rank as hip hop game changer/rearrangers.
    And even when they’re shitty, still more entertaining than most.

  51. antony Says:

    Illa ghee fits this category quite nicley

    “Im a hard rock whos hard to rock to sleep”

    “im so intelligent I even write rhymes in a suit”

    match lines like that with his voice and your on to a winner

  52. Tone Says:

    Yo, who was the worst rapper out of this bunch?
    Phife Dawg, Vinny from Naughty by Nature, Dinco D from L.O.N.S

    I gotta go with Dinco D just because of his verse on “Scenario”

    (True blue!) Scooby Doo, whoopie doo
    Scenario’s ready yo, rates more than four
    Scores for the snores that smother dancefloors
    Now I go for mine, shave the seashore
    Ship-shape crushed Grapes Apes that play tapes
    Papes make drakes baked for the wakes
    of an L-ah, An E-ah, simply just a leader
    bass in his face means peace see ya later
    Later? (LATER!) Later alligator
    Pop goes the weasel and the herb’s the inflater
    So yo the D what the O, incorporated I-N-C into a flow
    Funk flipped flat back first fist foul fight fight fight
    Laugh yo how’s that sound (ohhhhhh!)

    Sounds like rubbish to me. What in the world was he talking about? By far one of the worst verses ever.

    Who’s the worst athlete rapper?
    Kobe, Shaq, A.I, Roy Jones, Cedric Cebollos, Chris Webber, Deion Sanders?

  53. jzone Says:

    Who is Illa Ghee? Is he part of the Detroit/ Dilla clique, or am I thinkin of somebody else? Name is mad familiar. Yo Tone, you funny haha. But damn LONS had some fuckin BEATS!

  54. BIG D O Says:

    @ Tone maaan…that man Vinny from Naughty was pretty awful in spots…Dinco I actually thought was kinda fresh, lol, I can admit it….he had good energy yo…

    @ Zone Ill Ghee is a Brooklyn rapper that was loosely affiliated with the Alchemist when Al was living back east and running with Mobb Deep heavy…He’s dropped a lot of material but is prolly best known for being on Alchemist’s 2005 hit “Hold You Down” with Prodigy and Nina Sky…

  55. jzone Says:

    Ah OK, word. As for worst rapper athlete…jason kidd by far. man he was bad. AI was ignorant and hard, he’d actually be a good fit for these accolades. “40 Bars” was 6XL south pole jacket hood generic and atrocious, but it was so funny how he was the face of the NBA at the time and david stern shut that record down with the QUICKNESS! Had that Jewelz album dropped…man, Calvin Butts woulda ran that bitch over with a steam roller, haha.

  56. BIG D O Says:

    lol, Everybody that was on that lil’ “NBA’s Best Kept Secret” album was just utterly terrible with the exception of the late great Malik Sealy… R.I.P.,

    LOL, if you can make it through Gary Payton’s “Livin’ Legal and Large” than your a real man…

  57. jzone Says:

    C’mon Tone, Deion Sanders’ “Must Be The Money” was one of the hardest records of 1994, you don’t know what you talkin bout! Peep the video


  58. antony Says:





    ILLA GHEE!!!!

  59. magi115 Says:

    Big Time was an amazing album. Tim dog stepped it up on that shit. KMK had some dope production on there, and Keith is dope on just about anything.

    Big Shug has to be my pick for Greatest Bad Rapper.
    Sometimes I guess it’s not about technical ability, but moreso weather or not the entire formula works. Who’s Hard is a questionable album title tho (no homo).

  60. wilone52 Says:

    How could you not mention the greatest line in the whole album…”she wanted me to pee in her face ’so what did ya do?’ man, I pissed in her face”

    Definitely one of the good bad rappers was Guru. People are fronting if they say he’s dope. His voice just made him sound like he was good. Come on “lemonade was a popular drink and it still is”. Classic? Yes. Took more than a miinute to think of?!

  61. jzone Says:

    @ Wilone…Haha, yeah,I didn’t mention “Secret Fantasies” cause its in a league of its own

    “U mean the one with the fat ass?/ Ooops! They all have a fat ass/ but the one they call Maxine, she forgot to douche/ so I looked at the roach and I said no dick/ until ya go and douche.”

    I thought Guru held his own on Step in The Arena, Daily Operation and Moment Of Truth. Actually all the Gangstarr albums except Hard To Earn. Hard To Earn was all about the production to say they least. Look no further than the rhymes on “Mass Appeal”. They make “Dwyck” sound like “Prisoners of War”

  62. chuck money Says:

    thought i might get dissed for callin out guru. good to see some level heads prevail.
    zone i think your point is valid. guru was utterly forgettable on hard to earn. which is sad because primo was so so sick with it on that one…
    how about great mc’s that got stuck with awful beats?
    Let’s see,
    Nas It was written.
    It was written, then put to god awful tone n poke shit beats that pretty much, turned me off to ever buying another Nas album again. Plus that whole firm shit, ugh.
    Notorious B.I.G. Life after death (is that the name? 2nd album, whatever)
    Puffy barely let the two primo beats on the album.
    Nuff said.
    Brand Nubian The return
    once again primo brings it and nobody else even seems to have a pulse.
    Eric B and Rakim Let the rhythm hit em.
    So so many audio styrofoam peanuts.
    Big Daddy Cane
    um, all of them after the first?
    I do have a soft spot for taste of chocolate tho,
    Prince Paul helps.
    Organized Konfusion Equinox
    High Concept album, but pretty bland beats, besides a diamond d joint. After extinction agenda, I was confused.
    Sadat X. Black Cowboys.
    After the Lump Lump came out, I was exited.
    case of the Nas effect. Illmatic made everybody think they needed 10 different producers per lp.
    Only worked once. One of Hip hops biggest misconceptions and failures. Having a bunch of different producers verses artist and producer with chemistry is a no brainer.
    See Wu minus Rza, De La minus Prince Paul (with the exception being stakes is high but that one took awhile to grow on me),
    Best self produced rapper: Biz Markie hands down. Biz never sleeps, I need a haircut, and even all samples cleared.
    Although Chinese Food is a very good 12′ with a beat not by Biz, it’s by some other dude (cough).

    Good points boys. I’d like to hear more.

  63. jzone Says:

    @ Chuck Money…yeah man, when I heard “vocals kill like weapons”, i was like damn that’s 5th grade english similes haha. if it was malachi that said it, it would be cool though because it fits his whole vibe. guru was never a wordsmith, but he was a good storyteller and had decent to good rhymes on the other albums, so i expected more. and its sad cause preem was in a zone on that album, but the rhymes were mailed in from front to back. the intro was the best shit on there that didn’t involve the beats (and of course “words from the nutcracker”, which was amazing).

    i agree with all other points except let the rhythm hit em and wild cowboys. i thought Let the rhythm was ra’s best album, beats and all. it was kinda jazzed out, but ra sounds mean over hard jazz like that.

    wild cowboys i felt was the best brand nubian related solo album out of all of em. some of the beats were kinda on that slow mellow cal tjader jazz vibe that didnt fit, but there was some heat on there too.

    it was written was lyrically nas’ best album (i said it over the summer and i’ll say it again). but it was vanilla as far as the beats went, agreed.

    best beats on equinox were numbers and shuga shorty. after that, the skits and production sucked the life out of a lyrical masterpiece of an album.

  64. chuck money Says:

    my bad, meant follow the leader, not let the rhythm hit em.
    Need to reread my posts before sumbiting. Microphone fiend (just read that 45 king produced that!) is always classic but the rest is cardboard stuffing. and I have to say that let the rhythm is one of my favorites. Although don’t sweat the tech is also a gem of beats and rhymes too.
    Bad Rapper that went from bad meaning good to bad meaning bad Award goes to: Craig Mack
    White suit on a marble staircase? No cover alone ever buried a rappers career quicker. Hilarious.
    His first lp, even with puffy’s annoying ass on it, had some great beats by Mo Bee. Rhymes are all over the place. Take away puffs influence and this may have been a great bad rapper album.

  65. BIG D O Says:

    @ Chuck Money

    you thought the beats on It Was Written, Equinox and Wild Cowboys was bad? Nah…I gotta say I can’t agree….not at all…

    And also, while Biz is a true legend in every sense of the word and one of the greatest producer/MC’s ever as well, he wasn’t the best self produced rapper of all time….Large Pro, Lord Finesse and Pete Rock all took that role to the next level…

  66. jzone Says:

    Best producer/rapper was pete rock, but only in the days when grand puba was writin his rhymes. i dont care if pete didn’t write em, it was the way he delivered them. “i keep a mag in the trunk of my jag/ in case some punk fag/ wants to catch one bad.” or “tie ya girl to the back of my jeep, butt naked/ slide her monkey ass down a hill/ so if ya dont want beef, money chill”. pete was a goon! plus the beats…self-explanatory. pete > CL as an MC on Mecca And the Soul Brother, but CL stepped up on Main Ingredient.

    Equinox and It Was Written were hit or miss (more miss)in terms of beats. I’ll agree with Chuck on that one. But Wild Cowboys (save 3 or 4 beats) was bangin! That was my summer of ‘96 constant rotation album.

  67. jzone Says:

    But if you really wanna go deep and break it down to one album, no producer/rapper is fuckin with Godfather Don on the Hazardous album. That shit was insanity on all levels.

  68. chuck-money Says:

    perfectly honest, my man jon bought wild cowboys and he only played it in his car a few times. I guess i had high expectations and I bought both the 12s. Stages and lights prod by show is a top ten worthy b side, but shit i should go and peep it again…
    what about the god don lp on hydra?
    worst mastering job ever.
    that album can’t remember the name…
    voices with kool kieth is wild good.

  69. chuck-money Says:

    Big D O,
    can’t agree with the pete rock, his solo joints never really much more than cameo albums. I’d give you Lord Finesse, he’s a beast on both. His solo joints are mad entertaining too.
    Large Pro was great when he had anton doing the bass and other programming, but it seemed Large went small with that god awful 1st Class album. He used the asr 10 but thought he could play all the music on the keyboard and nobody told him the shit was a polished shining turd. To his defense large pros strength was his diggin and use of big loops and samples. Once that shit cut off the majority of his beats I bet he couldn’t afford to clear no more. just a guess. I wish the LP would have been released before all the sample clearance b.s. I bet that would have been a giant.

  70. Jim Says:

    Don’t know the catalogue, but Wet Wipes by Cam’Ron is genius crap rapping: ‘They got me saying d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-Damn!’

  71. Jim Says:


  72. Vocab Says:

    Just got done listening to that Tim Dog song….god bless J-Zone for this blog, amazing.

  73. mark p. Says:

    GREAT fucking post, though I can’t agree about Project Pat being a “bad” rapper by any standard. He’s a legitimately dope MC and a hilarious dude, it’s just that he only has one flow and can only rhyme over two types of tracks without sounding sloppy. Honestly, I’m kinda baffled by some of the comments as well. Eightball and E-40 bad rappers??? Fuckouttahere.

    Anyway, a few of my favorites, no order:

    1. DJ Paul & Juicy J - Pat might not be a bad MC, but these guys sure as fuck are!! And I absolutely LOVE them for it. “See in that M-town we snort that blow / Turn around and whoop our hoes / Take me a big gulp fulla that drank / Now my heart don’t know what to think / First I got it beatin’ fast, now I got it knockin’ slow / Sniff a little more of this, sip a little mo’ of that / Even down the middle, WHOA!” Always the most unrepentant party animals. Note how they always rap about DOING coke, NEVER about selling it!

    2. Dice and his brother Razzaq.

    A few years ago, when all of the record stores were trying to get rid of their cassettes, I grabbed a gem called “Theneighborhoodshittalka” by a Detroit MC named Dice for 10 fucking cents. About 5 minutes of google searches later, I knew that Dice was an early ’90s Detroit also-ran who rolled with Esham for like a month before falling out with him, and is still kicking around and releasing Murder Dog-friendly absurdist thug rap. But anyway, THIS album, man… It’s just a masterpiece of forced rhymes and irresponsible thug shit. I’ll let the quotes speak for themselves:

    “I’m the master, the master of rhymin’ / And even though she’s dead, I want to fuck Phyllis Hymen”

    “I run up on your granny / Snatch her purse and then shoot her / I needs the mothafuckin money for a brew and some budda”

    But the real winner is Dice’s brother Razzaq, who guests on approximately half of the songs. Here’s a few gems from THE SAME VERSE (”Poemz”): “Chaotic, never nervous / Smokin’ a nigga of the internal revenue service”,, “Pitbulls gets blown up with no delay / I blew away my next door neighboors, Bouvier”, “Careless, greasin’ motherfuckers like spare ribs / Sticking up stores owned by arabs”

    3. Baby. Well, Baby & Mannie, but mostly Baby. A few years back, a friend of mine and I were arguing about whether there had been any rap songs about heroin use (from the perspective of the user). About a month later, I came across a download link for the “I Need A Bag OF Dope” EP by B-32 (Baby). Yikes. If you think he’s “ignorant” on those Big Tymers records, you ain’t heard nothin’…

    4. NORE, Cam’Ron - They don’t really sound alike, but these two clown ass thugs are both “bad” in the same way. Both of ‘em never fail to crack me up.

    5. AMG - Not at all a “bad” MC, but I get the feeling he’s one of those rappers who east coast heads made fun of for not being “lyrical”. I wouldn’t know, I was like 8 at the time. He’s very one-note like all the best bratty trash-talking MCs (Milk Dee, etc), and his first album is one the best ever! “Ain’t nothin’ like black pussy on dick / WOrd to the mothafuckin’ DJ Quik!”

    Cosigned on Master P and Ron C as well!

  74. mark p. Says:

    Youtube links for the Dice tracks:


    I Need A Bag Of Dope:


  75. jzone Says:

    @ MArk P…Hahahahah, DICE!! I actually thought he was a dope ass MC. Neighborhood Shit Talka wasn’t lyrical, but his first album, The 40 Made Me Do It, whew! That shit was unbelievable, the rhymes were dope and funny…and the beats were insane.

    Agreed that Project Pat ain’t bad, but I listed him for the same reasons you listed AMG…people clown Pat for being non-lyrical…but his style is so dope, he sounds better than most dudes that are way more lyrical.

    I MUST find that B-32 album. All that old Cash Money shit like Pimp Daddy (RIP) and UNLV is priceless. Good comments.

  76. BIG D O Says:

    @ Chuck-money

    so what if Pete collab’d with a lot of people? He’s been rhyming since the jump, and while he’s not super nice, he brings some real ish’ and thought to his bars….I’ve always respected him on the mic…maybe not as much as I do while he was on that SP-1200, but ya know…

    As far as Large Pro goes you can’t say nuthin’ about his longevity….yeah, “1st Class” was a big disappointment to most of his longtime fans, but I wouldn’t say that his recent work is bad at all…In fact that “Main Source” album from last year was pretty ill to me…yeah nuthin’s gonna top the shit he was doing back in the 90’s, but he’s been mad consistent….

  77. chuck-money Says:

    bid d
    no diss on pete at all, just that I don’t really consider his lps as solo albums. More like compilation lp’s over his beats. guess that’s just my opinion.
    What is LP’s recent work? I honestly haven’t seen shit from him since 1st class. Admittedly I don’t really give much of a shit about current rap albums, cause I’ve been burned on wack shit for like a decade now… this club clap keyboard jingle shit has made my bitter old man golden era ears cry. oh well. thats why i dig for soul and funk for the last ten plus. far more satisfying.
    I’ll check out that new Main Source shit for sure tho.
    Had no idea they got back together.
    Clue me in to LP’s recent shit tho… What is it?
    Gotta say my favorite LP joints are the It’s a boy remix for Slick Rick, and the Just hangin out remix.
    Oh yeah, the Resurrection remixes he did were bangin too…

  78. jzone Says:

    Chuck…Large Pro’s Main Source LP is just called Main Source, it ain’t a group reunion. Large is just crazy like that haha. I liked it better than first class. “In The Ghetto” is vintage P, rappin in conversational tone.

  79. mark p. Says:

    Just found this NORE interview on the cocaine blunts blog. It’s in the running for THE MOST ignorant interview I’ve ever read, hahaha. Makes JT Money look like Gift Of Gab!


  80. jzone Says:

    My bad if some of your comments are disappearing, the wordpress approval thing is bootleg.

  81. Web Conn Says:

    The Big Tymers are amazing yeah they aren’t good rappers but the entertainment level of those two is through the roof. Mannie Fresh is alot of fun to listen to plus his beats are outta this world. But its Baby Beatrice that makes them what they are, Baby nowadays sucks in that he is just aweful and isnt entertaining at all. But back in the day the man would pretty much talk on beat and the things he said were beyond ignorant but god it was great plus he had more money then alot of rappers who can actually rap have. Another I like about Baby is on Big Money Heavyweight and Fast Money he was still entertainingly aweful but he was actually gaining skill he was adabting a flow tho very fundamental it wasnt just him talk rhymeing bitch with dick

  82. Mike C Says:

    YO ZONE , great blog , i got some guilty pleasure canadian artists from early 90’s , well they might not be a guilty pleasure to me (i love these cats) and fellow canadians .. .. people outside canada should know them ,, SNOW & MAESTRO FESH WES .

    SNOW -INFORMER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D39Lm_HRfOs

    in living color spoofed the song - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Icb_tRTnA4g

    MAESTRO FRESH WES - Let Your Backbone Slide

  83. Will line in the CHI Says:

    Project Pat is classic. I keep his whole catalog in rotation…not only are the beats fucking retarded sick (DJ Paul & Juicy J), but duke’s flow is great, and he is always good for an over the top line. “Bullets eat your bones up for din-din”…the man said “din din” first of all. Thats something that a fifty year old white lady says when she’s feeding her cat gourmet cat food.

    You and Rude are all about Tim Dog. I wasn’t as captivated by the ridiculousness but to each their own.

    I would have to throw Big Twins & Killa Cam on my list…even tho I dont consider any of these people mentioned to be “bad” by any means, but thats just based off of what the “typical” hip hop fan would think is bad, I say fuck that these cats are genius’ to me.

  84. Bredd Says:

    wow, do people really still think Tim Dog sucks?

    I’ve never listened to an album in my life more than Penicillin On Wax

  85. [o=o] King Says:

    When I first saw your blog the first person that came to mind was Melachi the Nut Cracker. I always felt either he was a simplistic rapper or a fuckin’ genius. The beat style Premier used on that album was so raw yet so simple that his rhyme style complimented it perfectly.

    [o=o] King.

  86. moodstarrr Says:

    “his threats of random and senseless violence against old people” - man that got me laughin hard.
    Great article. Thank you.

  87. Isaac Says:

    Fuck Tim Dog in the biker shorts.

    Good article though.

  88. Hammurubai Says:

    Doesn’t anybody remember Kurupts utter trainwreck of an opening verse for “XXplosive”?

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